Securing Indian Interests

August 2006, Magazine "What's on"

Over the last few years India's profile in Ukraine has risen and risen. The subcontinent infiltrates the lives of locals in many spheres, from the popularity of Bollywood films which are being shown with increasing frequency on Ukrainian television, to the economy, with Mittal Steel famously winning the auction for Kryvorshtal, the first major privatization to take place in Orange Ukraine. With Indian Independence Day taking place 15 August, Milan Patel caught up with His Excellency Debabrata Saha, India's gregarious and thoughtful ambassador.

What is your background?

I am from Calcutta, which is in the eastern part of India, and my wife from Delhi. I have a Masters degree in Physics, and also a background in Economics. (I completed the coursework part of an Economics doctoral program at the Graduate Institute of International Studies in Geneva, in 1999-2001, when my wife was posted as Minister in the Indian Mission to the UN in Geneva). I joined the Indian Foreign Service in 1977, and have served in Kuala Lumpur, Kathmandu, New York (Mission to UN), Colombo, London and Geneva (Mission to UN), in addition to spending some 10 years in various positions at Headquarters in New Delhi.

Kyiv has a thriving Indian community. What activities are they engaged in?

While not very large compared to the numbers in some western countries, the Gulf, or South East Asia, Indians in Ukraine are a fairly successful lot. They are successful in large part because they are quite enterprising. Many of the Indians who have made Ukraine their home studied either here or in some other part of the former Soviet Union. After graduating they have found productive niches in which they remain profitably engaged in this country. They can be found in diverse fields such as pharmaceuticals, food & beverages, metal products, and chemicals, where they have made quite a mark. I should not forget, of course, Mittal Steel's investment in what was earlier Kryvorshtal. I think Indians have a reputation for being quite business savvy, and have a good sense of the business potential in different fields.

How do Indian nationals find life here in Ukraine?

From what I have seen I think they are quite at home here. They have their Indian restaurants, so they are never denied their Indian foods. They have also imported their cricket to this country. Most important, however, but they have integrated - they have become a part of the local society, to which they try to give back in various ways. I think everyone will agree that the small Indian community in Ukraine are a positive factor in this country.

Can you explain the popularity of Indian culture in Ukraine, and what is the Indian Embassy doing to encourage this?

The popularity of Indian culture in Ukraine must reflect the fact that people in the two countries, however different they might appear otherwise, must connect deeply at some level. Different forms of Indian culture enjoy considerable popularity in Ukraine - from films, to dance, to music, to yoga. Interest in Indian films can probably be explained by the fact that Ukrainians have long been exposed to Bollywood, almost since the Indian film industry was born, and throughout the Soviet period. Hindi films are regularly screened on Ukrainian TV.

There is a lot of interest in Indian dances, both classical and pop. There are over 30 groups all over Ukraine, which are committed to learning and teaching and performing Indian dances, entirely spontaneously - without any support from the Embassy. Also Indian pop music seems to have an appeal among some in this country, though the younger generation today in Ukraine is perhaps less fascinated with it than the older generation was.

As for what the Embassy does to promote this, we do our bit by organizing Indian cultural events in Ukraine or encouraging and supporting our Ukrainian friends and the Indian community here to organize such events in this country. We are looking forward to holding cultural events in Ukraine in the framework of the year of Indian Culture in Ukraine starting later this year.

IT is transforming the Indian economy. What are the lessons for Ukraine?

In IT India has benefited from investment in science education and the fact that we have a large English speaking population. Ukraine has a very strong foundation in science, with highly skilled technical personnel. I am confident that as more and more young people acquire knowledge of English the country will be able to carve out an important place for itself in the IT field. That would, in turn, lead to the rapid upgrade of industry in Ukraine.

The Indian economy is experiencing significant growth. What does Ukraine need to do to emulate this success?

Given their high level of education and technical skills, and the abundance of natural resources in the country, I think Ukrainians have a great future. As Ukraine acquires more experience in modern business methods, as young Ukrainians become more confident in dealing with market mechanisms, as they master the art of risk-taking so essential to enterprise development, the economy of Ukraine is bound to become stronger, more efficient and more dynamic in the coming years. The government of Ukraine is trying to put in place the necessary institutional mechanisms, legal and financial structures to bring about the changes to make Ukraine a vibrant, market economy. Needless to say, the institutional and legal frameworks are very important for Ukraine's rapid economic growth, as it is for any transition or developing country.

Can you tell me more about Indian/Ukrainian relations? What are the similarities between Indians and Ukrainians? And what are the key differences?

Ukraine remains an important development partner of India. Ukrainian engineers played an important role in the establishment of several of our major steel plants, and the coal industry, for example. Our trade and economic cooperation is growing rapidly every year. Bilateral trade between India and Ukraine increased threefold in the last two years - from US $ 356 million in 2003 to over US $ 1 billion last year. During the visit last year of the President of India to Ukraine, it was agreed by the two presidents that our bilateral trade should target the figure of US $ 5 billion by the year 2010. I am optimistic that this target would be reached.

I have already spoken about our cultural relations, so I will not repeat that. As for our political relations they are very good. We also have important defence relations. A very large part of the equipment we have in our armed forces were made in Ukrainian enterprises during the Soviet period. We have one of the largest fleets of Antonov aircraft anywhere, for example.

As for similarities between India and Ukraine, historians tell us that our relations go back many centuries, that there possibly exists some common ethnic and linguistic roots between India and Ukraine. There are, for example, similarities in language, names of places, and customs.

As for differences, apart from the fact that we are situated in two different continents, our recent experiences have been quite different. We in India have a firmly entrenched democracy, with established institutions. On the economic side, notwithstanding our experiment with a command economy, we have a long experience of a market economy and free enterprise. Ukraine, on the other hand is a country in transition, striving to put in place institutions and mechanisms both to support a modern market economy, and to entrench its nascent democracy.

What is the diplomatic scene like here in Kyiv?

Not very different from what it is in most other capitals. Perhaps it is a little more closely knit than elsewhere, since you need each other to tide over the bitter winter!