Interview of Ambassador given to newspaper "Kiyevskiy Telegraph".

Published on August 4, 2006.

"In many fields cooperation between Ukraine and India have barely started" - Ambassador Debabrata Saha

For some time now India is a special country in the history of modern Ukraine. Its businessman very generously paid a huge sum of money for an Ukrainian enterprise [Kryvorystahl], which allowed Kyiv not only to take pride in our strategic objects but also to talk on "the biggest success in privatization since declaration of independence". However India could, in the best sense of the word, 'teach' Ukraine how to maintain unity of the country and use it for achieving amazing economic results. And to secure a leading place in the sphere of high technologies, to transform itself from "the country of cows on the streets" to a modern "state of computers in the offices". India, as the globally acknowledged "largest democracy of the world", can also show how it has established relations with neighbors despite the wars that have been fought and endless conflicts.
Contacts between Ukraine and India went through different phases, including a period of mutual coolness. This was a result of the distance between the two countries, lack of professionalism of Ukrainian negotiators, and slowness of Indian bureaucrats who, from old habit, saw things from the perspective of Moscow. However, the Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of India to Ukraine, Mr. Debabrata Saha, says that phase is behind us and is confident that relations are bound to become stronger in the years ahead.

Mr. Ambassador, how can you estimate the prospects and the dynamics of development of economic and political contacts between India and Ukraine? Are our relationships being developed or they are in stagnation?

We can talk a lot about our relations. But first of all I would like to mention that Indo-Ukrainian relationships started long before Ukraine became an independent state. Though our countries established official diplomatic relations in 1992, during the Soviet period we had close contacts with this region. We had significant cooperation in various fields of technology, for example. Probably, at that time we did not even know that we were cooperating with Ukraine. You know that our public sector steel industry, which was set up after our independence, was developed and achieved success with the assistance of many Ukrainian engineers and technologists. The same could be said about our coal-mining industry.

Also I would like to mention about our trade and economic relations. Business today is one of the main components of relations between countries. Our bilateral trade turnover has increased rapidly, especially in the last two years. For example, in 2003 it was 324 mln dollars. In 2005 it crossed 1bln dollars. So, I think, the target, set by leaders of our states during the visit of Indian President to Ukraine in June 2005, to reach 5 bln dollars of trade turnover, is quite realistic. Especially, if we take into account that in many fields our economic relations have barely started.

Basically, India purchases metal products, chemicals and machinery from Ukraine, and Ukraine buys pharmaceuticals from my country. However, Ukraine is strong in the sphere of biotechnology, for example, and my country is strong in software, and we have to explore possibilities of cooperation in these spheres. Both our countries are large - by territory and population. So there is great scope for mutually beneficial cooperation. People to people relations are very important. I have been heartened by the level of interest in India, its culture and art among Ukrainians.

Are Indian businessmen and Indian politicians afraid of possible change of the political course of Ukraine? We mean appointment of the new pro-Russian government of Yanukovych...

In my view, neither the Government of India nor Indian businessmen engaged in business in Ukraine, have any reason to worry, whatever changes might occur at the political helm. During the months that I have been in this country, I have seen that Mr. Yanukovych is particularly interested in the development of business in Ukraine, and I am sure he will continue to accord this high priority. Therefore I think that the interest of the business sector in Ukraine under the Prime Minister Yanukovych would be well looked after, and so foreign investors would not have any reason to feel threatened by anything.

India has made the biggest investment for the whole history of Ukraine, meaning purchase of "Kryvoryzhstal". Does Indian business beware of re-privatization of this enterprise and therefore loss of money?

Frankly speaking, I do not want to say anything on behalf of Indian businessmen. They would speak for themselves. I would only mention that when a businessman makes an investment decision, especially one on such a scale, he certainly takes into account all possible risks, and makes investment decisions fully confident in the stable work of the enterprise and the profit potential of the enterprise.

Mr. Ambassador, today the world is not serene in many regions. What are the present Indian-Pakistani relations? For how much the existing level of contradiction was smoothened? Is the new geo-political conflict possible in this region?

Since 1947 there have been several wars between India and Pakistan, so it would be wrong to pretend that today India and Pakistan are two friendly countries. Nevertheless, our countries have an active ongoing dialog. For example, in May 2006 our Deputy Defence Ministers met in order to discuss the Siachen glacier issue. Siachen is located high in the mountains. Since 1984 India and Pakistan have clashed over Siachen more than once.

In 1972 our countries signed the Simla agreement, in which the parties committed themselves to resolve all conflicts through bilateral negotiations and by peaceful means. Besides, we make a lot of effort to maintain people to people communication between the citizens of our countries. We have bus and railway links connecting the two countries. Representatives of the public non-governmental organizations of India and Pakistan conduct meetings on a regular basis and seek ways of resolving the existing differences. I think one important factor that should help us in resolving our problems is the fact that we speak a common language and understand each other.

We hope we can resolve our differences with Pakistan and avoid conflicts in future. But, unfortunately, all the achievements of our ongoing dialog are set back by the acts of terrorism supported from across the border, such as the recent terrorist attacks in Mumbai. Today, Indian law enforcement bodies and special services are thoroughly investigating this accident. I regret to say that investigation has ascertained links of a terrorist organization, based at the territory of Pakistan, to these acts of terrorism. President of Pakistan Pervez Mushrraf assured the Indian leadership that he would make all possible efforts to help India in the investigation of this accident. But, unfortunately, given how long we have been victims of terrorist acts supported from across the border, we are very skeptical of such assurances. Our relations can improve only if all terrorist bases across the border are completely dismantled.

Recently India has conducted tests of missile of the new generation "Agni-3". How do you think, is this a factor deterring the potential aggression of Pakistan?

I would not consider this test from such a point of view. During the almost 60-years that we have been independent, India has been one of the most ardent supporters of peace. But for a country as large as India, with more than 1 bln population, it is very important to ensure the country's security, especially since many countries in our region possess nuclear weapons. India must therefore ensure that it has whatever is necessary to ensure its security. Our indigenously developed missiles, including "Agni-3" which was test-fired recently, should be seen in that context. I would like to underline the fact that in contrast to the nuclear and missile programs of our neighbor, ours have been developed entirely indigenously.

Mr. Ambassador, several years ago Ukrainian-Indian relations were saddened by big supply of Ukrainian tanks to Pakistan. Is this page of relations turned or still certain tension remains and is there any threat that defence cooperation between Ukraine and Pakistan would be continued?

Certainly, we were not happy with the fact that Ukraine supplied tanks to Pakistan, but we are pragmatic, and we know that relations should not be frozen forever. Naturally, we would not want to see that in future Ukraine would become the main supplier of weapons to Pakistan, and we hope that this will not happen. You know Ukraine and India have very good relations and active cooperation precisely in the sphere of supply of defence equipment from Ukraine. I can say: yes, we turned this page and closed the subject.

Is cooperation in space exploration between Ukraine and India possible?

Certainly, it is possible. In India there is a clear differentiation between our military missile program and our civilian space program. By the way, Ukraine and India started cooperation in this sphere since the beginning of the 80s when the Indian satellite was developed in cooperation with the space agency in Dnipropetrovsk. During the visit of our president to Ukraine last year, great attention was paid to civilian space cooperation.

Mr. Ambassador, Indian and Ukrainian parties discussed a matter of purchase of our big transport aircrafts, in particular AN-70. Is interest to this project still alive?

We have longstanding and very successful cooperation with Antonov enterprise. India today has, perhaps, the largest fleet of Antonov planes outside the former Soviet Union - more than 100. As for AN-70, we know that this aircraft is jointly being developed by Ukraine and Russia and it is planned to invite to this project some other countries, in particular India. But as of today India is not a party in this joint project.

As we know recently India purchased from Russia the "Smerch" emplacement. What are the directions of defence cooperation between India and Ukraine? Do any defence supplies exist?

I would like, first of all, to mention that there are some spheres in the military-industrial field, where Ukraine is very strong. For example, in the manufacture of military-transport aircrafts. I know that Ukraine produces the biggest transport aircraft in the world "Ruslan" - AN-124, with a carrying capacity of150 tons. Besides, Ukraine is among the world leaders in production of gas turbines, which are used mainly for naval vessels and also for power stations. The enterprise "Zorya-Mashproekt" in Mykolayiv produces it. Also the Ukrainian enterprise "Motor Sich" is one of the biggest in the world in the production of aviation engines. These enterprises not only produce and test the engines and turbines, they also service and repair them. In today's world if some country needs certain special equipment it looks for opportunities to buy equipment of the highest quality at the lowest possible price. From this point of view Ukraine has a lot of potential in the world market. So Indian-Ukrainian military-technical cooperation depends, most of all, on Ukraine's competitive position and its ability to satisfy the needs of Indian Armed Forces.

Mr. Ambassador, in your region there is the powerful state - Chinese People's Republic. What are the relations between India and China? Are there any problems?

We have an unresolved dispute regarding our border with China. We fought a war in 1962. But both countries showed maturity in agreeing that the dispute should be resolved only through dialog. Also, that we should not make our entire relations hostage to the border dispute. Therefore, when meetings at the highest level take place our leaders do not allow the unresolved border issue to decide our relations. I think that both India and China have greatly benefited from the realization that peaceful resolution of this conflict is what is needed. Today China is our second largest trading partner, after the US. According to some forecasts, China could become our biggest trading partner in future, with trade in the future exceeding 100 bln dollars. Yes, certainly, we have the unresolved border issue between us, but we do not allow this problem to affect our relations in other areas where we can cooperate for mutual benefit.

We asked this question because in press we often see information on attacks of fighters-maoists in Indian States. Probably it shows that situation becomes aggravated?

India is a big country. And given the freedom that our population enjoys, it is impossible to eliminate isolated "pockets" of discontented people engaging in violent acts for their misguided political ends. These groups engage in sporadic attack of defenseless people, for example in trains or in remote villages. But the main thing is that India is a democratic state. And all citizens are free to express their point of view, are free to participate in peaceful dialog. For a big country like India, however, such isolated acts of violence or opposition to government policy will never take the form of a 'revolution'.

We were talking on military conflicts, on supplies of weapons, but there is one global problem, which concerns India as well, theses are epidemics, in particular, epidemic of avian flue, which spreads along Asia. Does it touch India? And as long as you have very strong pharmaceutical industry, do your experts work on elaboration of vaccine against the avian flue?

I would certainly like to declare that our scientists have finally found a vaccine against the avian flu. But, unfortunately, for the time being at least, that is not the case. Besides, we should not forget that avian flu is not a problem just of India, China or any other country. It is a global problem. Whichever country invents a vaccine against this disease - whether Ukraine, India or the USA - everyone will win because of that. Today, when such a vaccine does not exist, all countries should take necessary precautions. It is obvious that an avian flu epidemic would be catastrophic. Naturally, governments of every country, including India and Ukraine, as far as I know, make all efforts to observe the necessary precautionary measures. India has put in place the necessary monitoring program, and measures for its localization and elimination should it occur.

So you are confident that Ukrainian tourists can go to India without fear?

Absolutely. I think that Ukrainians should not have any fears. By the way I would like to mention that in winter this year our Consular section issued the largest ever number of visas to Ukrainian tourists. In winter, when the real scare of a serious epidemic existed in the world, many Ukrainian tourists were traveling to our country. Today, I am sure, there is no danger at all. Especially, taking into account that all birds that fly during the winter to the south would now have returned to the north.

Mr. Ambassador, what places in India are visited by Ukrainian tourists most of all?

Basically there are three regions. First is the State of Goa, located in the west of India. It is on the sea, and one of the most beautiful places in India - indeed, one of the best sea-resorts in the world. Next is Jaipur, located in the State of Rajasthan. And, finally, the region around Delhi and Agra.

Where would you personally recommend to go?

You see, I am from the east, from the city of Calcutta. Unfortunately we do not receive a big flow of tourists in Calcutta. But I would certainly like to invite Ukrainians to visit the east. But speaking seriously Jaipur, Agra, and Delhi can offer many interesting places to visit and enjoy for Ukrainian tourists.